Episode 10: I Just Have a Lot of Feelings, “Mean Girls” with Abbey Truslow

References and “You Might Also Like”

Episode Transcript

Lyndsey: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome to episode 10 of Epilogues and Epiphanies, a show where we'll explore questions about life, the universe, and being human through the lens of TV and film. In this week's episode, or today's episode, I don't know, this episode we will be talking about one of my favorites, mean girls with another one of my favorites, Abby Truslow.

She was my roommate in college. We get into some great conversations about surviving [00:01:00] adolescence in the early two thousand and the brilliance of Tina Fey and of course a whole lot of quoting of this movie. So, with all that let's just get right on into this super fun episode and without further ado, so without further ado, let's go.

Oh, so let's go. All right guys. Welcome to another episode. I'm super excited to talk about this movie. This is probably one of my favorite movies ever. Top 10 Easy. So today I have Abby with me, and we are gonna be talking about Mean Girls and I'm gonna let Abby introduce herself. And, oh, sorry. Do you go by Abby or Abigail?

Because I have you on phone as two. Okay. I thought Abby, but then I was like, that's cause maybe she's like grown up and stuff.

Abbey: No, it's because you have me as Abigail because only a few friends in my life have ever really called me. Abigail. That was you and Rachel and like a couple other roommates. [00:02:00] It doesn't work for anybody else.

That's why you have me as Abigail. I don't know if you.

Lyndsey: remember. Everyone else probably would when we would like, get in our like moments. I feel like I probably called you Abigail then. We, we, we would have sparring matches occasionally. And of course, not physical ones, verbal ones. No. But no. Yeah, yeah.

We can hang probably, wouldn't we? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then everyone else is like, run, run.

Abbey: It's just. Well, you are being a one and me being an Enneagram eight, we will, we will not back down. We'll just stand up. And so like, we've got reasons, but we like those thoughts. We like that. Like I like somebody, I appreciate your authenticity to go with me.

You know? Yeah. Oh yeah. Be real with me. That's what I want. If somebody runs, I'm kind of like, well, that was lame. I want somebody who's going to interact with me in that way, and I can be totally chill about it. It can be really threatening to other people, and I've learned how to like to navigate that.

Mm-hmm. Based on personalities. But like you and me, we could handle that and like, [00:03:00] it'd be closer. You know, we're like, yeah,

Lyndsey: we're cool. Good times. Okay. Well, if you haven't guessed guys, we know each other from college. Yeah. College roommate. But anyways, Abby's here. Abby was my roommate, and we sort of knew each other, didn't know each other before that.

And then I will let you say what else? Whatever else you want people to know about you. Well,

Abbey: I already said I am an Indian Gram eight wing nine. Yeah, that's what I am. I've, since, you know, we have grown and matured I lean into my nine wings for help to be peaceful. Mm-hmm. To not always be challenging.

So yeah, I think that's a pretty good summary of my personality. I'm also a mom. So, I'm just, I'm not a regular mom. I'm a cool mom since we're here today. Just wanted to throw out there. That's awesome. I went to school for nursing. I was a nurse for about seven, eight years. And now I'm just staying at home because I have two kids and childcare is really expensive, so, we’re doing that now.

So, I am fully in mom world.

Lyndsey: [00:04:00] Crazy. That's Abby. All right, well now that we know Abby, what is Abby's quick plot summary of this glorious masterpiece?

Abbey: Well, first I just have to say how honored I was that you chose me to talk about this movie because can we think of a more classic like generational defining movie for millennial,

Lyndsey: literally millennial even Google cannot.

So, no,

Abbey: I actually had to like to do a little research cuz I wanted to just make sure this wasn't in my head and that like, I didn't just think it was as iconic as it is and it is for sure. So, I went and did some

Lyndsey: research there. There are t-shirts, Abby, there are multiple t-shirts and mugs.

Abbey: Well, like am I in a bubble?

I don't know if I'm in a, a millennial bubble. I might be. But like I saw back in like 2021, Marie Claire was talking about how this was the most iconic two thousand pop culture movie. That was 2021 and then 2022 Rolling Stones listed it as number 20 [00:05:00] on its best comedies and called it the most quotable.

Lyndsey: movie.

Oh, for sure. There are so many. Even in the first like 20 minutes, there's so many. Yes. I know. I have

Abbey: like a list of all of like my favorite quotes and like, I just started watching the movie back and I was like, oh, there's one. There's one. Like, it's just, it comes so

Lyndsey: quickly. Yeah, it's amazing. It's, it's

Abbey: so fast.

Like it is so well written. I mean, it just speaks to Tina Faye and her intellect, her creativity, her wittiness, like, mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. So, this is the defining movie of our generation. So, to get to talk about it, I was like, oh my gosh, I am so. This is.

Lyndsey: pretty excited. What a pretty deal. Excited to have this conversation.

Yeah, and I think it was like one of those movies that I, I've known I wanted to talk about, but like, I was like, I don't know who gives a crap as much as me. And cuz I was like, I don't wanna just like have a conversation and someone's like, oh yeah, I've seen that [00:06:00] before. And I'm like, what? So yeah, no, definitely not gonna gonna do that.

No, I still.

Abbey: speak in. Movie quotes of this movie, I've decided this will be the movie to date me. 100%. Yeah. Cause I will be, oh yeah. It's like what? We're two decades out and I'm still like quoting like it.

Lyndsey: on we wish we were, yes. Why are you so obsessed? You can't sit with us. She doesn't even go here.

That's my favorite one. That might be my favorite one. She's like, she just has a lot of feelings.

Abbey: Well, and meme culture. When Meme, I don't know, did meme culture kind of, it took off when we were in

Lyndsey: college. College, so it would've been this. This movie I do feel was like a little bit of a sleeper though.

Like I feel like it came out and it was like it happened and then we all slowly adopted it over time. Like I don't remember it being like, boom, it's here and everyone is obsessed with it. I kind of remember it being like a, like a trickle out a little bit. I do remember.

Abbey: I mean, it was 2004, so I was 14 when it came out, and I [00:07:00] guarantee you I wasn't allowed to watch

Lyndsey: it at 14.

Oh yeah, same. No, I know I wasn't. That's,

Abbey: yeah, I don't actually know when I saw it for the first time. But in middle school it was a big hit. I do remember like people dressing up as the mean girls for Halloween, like I remember that happening. So, it was a big deal to my, got it. My group. But I, I don't know when I actually saw it.

So

Lyndsey: that's, I think I didn't see it until I was like 16 and bursting the little shelter bubble that I had. Yeah. So, so summary, so,

Abbey: so, okay. Summary. Yes. You want the summary? All right. Yeah.

Lyndsey: So, on here, Abby's version, we start

Abbey: off with caddy hearing. She has been homeschool. Her entire life, 12 years in Africa, her parents are a zoologist, and they are coming back to the States because her mom got tenure at Northwestern, which I don't think that's how that works, but she did.

And so, they decide that her junior year of high school is a good time to put her into a. The public

Lyndsey: [00:08:00] school system. I feel like that was a jerk move on the parents' part. Listen, I agree, Kate, Katie doesn't know what she's getting into. No, but you sure is. Crap. Do like, you know what it's gonna be like and you are the one throwing her into the fire.

Mm-hmm. And like, so they, no,

Abbey: I actually as a parent now have like thought because I didn't think about it much at the time, but as a parent now, I'm like, yeah, that was stupid, and I would never do that to my kids. And they said later on in the movie, cuz I was trying to figure out what were their reasons and they said they wanted her to be socialized.

And I was like, that was stupid because she was actually so well adjusted. You could see her in the movie not really understanding why adults didn't trust her. She was able to function really well. She had a good moral compass. Like, and she wasn't weird. She was very confident. So, there was no reason to socially,

Lyndsey: basically, she hadn't been steeped in the toxic parts of pure culture of high school.

But she was fine otherwise.

Abbey: 100% not worth it. I would've, if that was me, I would've [00:09:00] continued to homeschool them like for two more years. It would've been fine. It's crazy. It's crazy. Totally fine. She would've been better off, but she would've been better off. That's what they did. Stuff happens. Yeah. They sent her to school and her first day there was awful.

Absolutely awful. And I mean, it, it started out with some of my favorite quotes. Oh. Like, so one of my favorites like scenes, I, when I was watching this back, one of my favorite things to do with old movies is see is if it still works culturally, like, or if they're taboo or if there's things that, like jokes that they make that they can't make anymore.

Or if they would've gotten canceled for saying this and there wasn't anything

Lyndsey: like, I was like, oh, this still, there were a couple, there were a couple things Regina says that I'm like, oh, we wouldn't say that now. But but

Abbey: you still would because it was like, it’s obvious that you're not allowed to say that.

It's obvious that she shouldn't have said that, and you would know because she's a mean girl. That's why she's saying it. So

Lyndsey: I, I still think mean girls [00:10:00] now wouldn't have said the R word. I don't think they would've called someone. Yeah, that one. Yeah. They probably, that one stuck out to me. There were three of those.

I was like, whoa. They said that three times. I remember one. Mm-hmm. I don't remember all of them, but

Abbey: I, I'll give you that one. Yeah. But I didn't really see like their big jokes. There was nothing that I was.

Lyndsey: Yeah, the main stuff is still like, it still tracks. Like it's still funny. I don't know if it still applies to high schoolers, but it's still funny.

Like it's not like,

Abbey: so, I have asked a couple of high schoolers kind of like, do you guys still have the cliques? And they like to pretend that they don't, but they do.

Lyndsey: They still have the clicks? They definitely do. I just think like's a lot of, I mean, there's so much body shaming in this movie, like self-body shaming and like that kind of thing.

Like there's so much of that that I am like, I think. I'm sure internally there are notes of it that still exist, but like culturally, I think the standard mm-hmm. Feels a, like there's a lot more room for different [00:11:00] people. Body positivity, different, yeah. There's a lot more body positivity. And that was one thing I noticed,

but

Abbey: I think that's a little more mature than high school because I still see high schoolers like kind of shaming and talking about like, you know, having the thigh gap and cuz that's a new thing that you have to have.

So, like I, I don't know if the high schoolers are

Lyndsey: really that maybe it depends on the

Abbey: high schoolers maybe, but yeah, so she has her terrible first day. She doesn't understand anything about why people are so mean and why adults are so awful. It's like a terrible adjustment. Her second day there though, we meet Janice and Damien and they kind of adopt her and Which is really great.

So, she misses her first health class and which is where we, one of my favorite which I know we've said this line back to each other before, don't have sex because you will get pregnant and you will die. Like, we get our favorite quote from that. But she misses her health will die to hang out [00:12:00] with Damien and Janice and they kind of like introduce her to understanding what the

Lyndsey: plastics are.

And then can I just interject really quick about her little note that she makes of, I know skipping class is wrong, but like, I really needed friends and the fact that she like makes a note of that is like, I'm like, yeah, no, I would be like, ah. Like I would be like, but I need to go to class, but wow, I really need friends.

And that like inner conflict that mm-hmm. Just, I felt like that tipped us off that historically Katie's been really, really good, like mm-hmm. Really

Abbey: good. I think it also showed us that she's able to reason priorities. Which is a very mature thing again. Mm-hmm. And speaks to the fact that she didn't need to go to high school.

Mm-hmm. But, because she knows what she's gonna need to survive, she's gonna need friends to survive. So, she's willing to make

Lyndsey: adjustments to survive and yeah, she didn't cling to the first rule she ever learned of you have to go to class, that's the right thing to do. [00:13:00] Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Abbey: Yeah. She's able to say like, the greater priority right now is to get friends.

Mm-hmm. So again, she did not need to aj.

Lyndsey: like do that. Yeah. Yeah. She was fine. Parents, you ruined it.

Abbey: Yes. Honestly, like they set her back for real. So, then we meet the plastics and you have first Karen Smith, who is played by Marin Siegfried, and she is introduced as one of the dumbest girls you will ever meet.

Lyndsey: And I have a question for you, Abby. Yeah. Have you listened to the musical soundtrack for the Mean Girls Broadway show? I have not. Actually, oh my gosh. Why? That's your, you need to, that's my homework. That's your homework because it's, you will laugh so hard. There is a song where they introduce the plastics and my name, she sings this line really epically, and she says, my name is Karen.

I may not be smart. That's it. Like, and that's the line. So, whenever they like, were introducing Karen, I was just like, this is amazing. Like, they did such [00:14:00] a, like, so good. But yeah, no, basically that's like the theme. That's all we really ever get to know about Karen is she's cute and dumb. Mm-hmm. That's, that's it.

Yeah. And

Abbey: she likes to make.

Lyndsey: Her cousin maybe. Oh, but you have your first, you have your first cousins and then you, and then it's like, no, no, honey. No. Oh my gosh.

Abbey: And then you have Gretchen Wieners who she knows everything. That's why her hair is so big. It's Pelo

Lyndsey: Secrets. Oh my gosh, Gretchen. They were a little, so there's one point in the movie where they're saying, I feel bad for Gretchen.

She's not gonna win because she's not pretty. Yeah. That's what.

Abbey: Regina said. That's so

Lyndsey: me. She's pretty and false. She's very pretty. Mm-hmm. I'm

Abbey: like, she was so insecure. She was so insecure. She needed Regina so bad. She is like, she does a follower.

Lyndsey: She's the one that does not grow. The one character, this film that does not grow, she just laughs.

She just finds a new spot. [00:15:00] Mm-hmm.

Abbey: Oh man. And then you have Regina George who is what? Evil incarnated or something that's, I forget how Janice, something says it. And then there's like a montage of like, Regina George is flawless. Once Regina George punched me in the face, it was awesome. Like,

Lyndsey: just like how, how, how sta she saw John stainless on a plane and he told her she was pretty.

Abbey: Yes. Yep. And then after we meet the plastics, we go to the cafeteria and Janice is drawn the map for her about where she's gonna go and sit. But she gets stopped at the plastics table and they want her to sit with them. And so, she does. And they're like, well this is kind of like a really big deal.

People don't really sit with us, but we want to invite you to sit with us tomorrow. And Karen's like, and on Wednesdays we wear pink. That's where we get that classic line.

Lyndsey: Yes. There's a lot of rules. There's

Abbey: a lot of rules. And then Gretchen's always like, that's so fetch. Oh, but actually this is my favorite, one of my favorite lines has [00:16:00] Karen in it.

Or Karen's like, so if you're from Africa,

Lyndsey: why are you white? Oh my God, Karen, you can't just ask people why they're white. I know.

Abbey: Karen is just delivering for us.

Lyndsey: She is just, she. Fantastic. Love her. So funny. Yeah. There are so many. Tina Faye knocked this one out of the park. Mm-hmm. It's just.

Abbey: after one after the other.

It just hits. And the way that the movie moves too, like, see it's a quick one. It's not dull. Like everything. It, I read something where it talked about how, like, it's expected, but like, it's well done. Like it's mm-hmm. Cliche. Mm-hmm. But like, you don't expect like how they're gonna do it. And so, it's like mm-hmm.

That's why it's so good. I,

Lyndsey: yeah. And it's, it's really, it's nuanced. It's like, I think that's one thing I noticed that I was thinking about is in a movie like this, typically the teacher characters are like non-existent pretty much. Mm. Because they're like, you know, if you think of, I guess one that I think of that's kind [00:17:00] of another like stereotypical, one of the genres is like, John Tucker must die.

And there's like no adult characters. It's just like all this like high school hot mess. Mm-hmm. And like and you know, we meet Tina Fey, and we meet her first with her, like shirt stuck to her. Mm-hmm. Like sweater and like, you know, there's the teacher, the principal being kind of weird and like the Yeah.

The, the adults have some, some personality divorced. She got divorced. Like there's

Abbey: backstory. Yeah. And there's like depth to that, and now she's like struggling financially and so you're like, oh yeah,

Lyndsey: adult is hard. Yeah, yeah. You definitely get that. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so good. And I feel like, you know, from, from that point to me, like if I was, I was thinking about this movie in terms of like hero's journey, like, okay, what's the real, like what's the impetus here?

Like, and Katie, I feel like the plot starts when Regina betrays Katie. Like, yeah, I that I feel like that's when like she has a problem. She didn't

Abbey: really get it. Yeah. She thought that Regina was nice and [00:18:00] she didn't wanna go along with Janice's plan to sit in and listen to him. She was like, she's fine.

Until that moment where with Erin Samuels, she takes him back and she's just like, why would she do that? Then yes, it takes off and we have our plan of how we're going to take them down.

Lyndsey: Yes. I have a shallow question. Mm-hmm. Did you get the Aaron Samuel's thing? Because I did not. What do you mean? I thought he was like, fine, but like, I wasn't like, why are we all, I was like, why are we all obsessed with him?

He was very.

Abbey: early two thousand hottie. Okay. Like the hair.

Lyndsey: Okay. I just, I just was never like, he seemed.

Abbey: feeling it. I think he just.

Lyndsey: fits the Matt says he just looks like every popular guy in high school. He. He's like an amalgam of popular guys. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. I was just curious. Cause I was like, I don't, I didn't really get it.

Like, I don't know if it had been like Chad, Michael Murray, I would've been like, I understand, like, like I get the plot of this movie now. Like I understand why we're gonna destroy a woman for this, but, you know [00:19:00] that's terrible. But yeah, basically, Regina finally crosses that line. And I would have to say, here's what we, here's what I'm noticing.

Regina is very smart, and Regina is mm-hmm. Creative and quick on her feet because she mm-hmm. Thinks up some things to say that I'm like, where did that come from? And like the whole, like, you know, when she basically explodes the school with the burn book, like, and puts herself in it. Mm-hmm. I would not have thought to do that, but that was like manipulative gold.

Like she, it was maintained power very.

well.

Abbey: She is just Yeah. Diabolical and a genius dia. Like she really does so smart. Maintain power well, like she knows how to keep people back and on their toes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she knows, like with Gretchen, she, she knows when to take her down, when to cut her down.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you even see her in the beginning, cutting down. Katie, And like Yeah. [00:20:00] Preemptively. Mm-hmm. And you just, and I, the only time I, this was interesting during the, the Jingle Bell Rock performance. Mm-hmm. Towards the end. Mm-hmm. That's the one time you see, like in the beginning, Gina really like on her heels.

And she's like, I feel threatened by Katie right now. And so now I need to like amp it up. And that was the first time I had seen her like really insecure. And then she latches or lashes out at Gretchen. Mm-hmm. And that's when Gretchen snaps, you know, and Gretchen starts spilling all the secrets and that's how they finally end up taking over because Regina at one point felt weak and didn't have power, and she like cut down her minion a little too much, you know?

Lyndsey: Yeah. She went a little too far and like kind of broke her own system. Really? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was the jingle Bell Rock thing. Number one CD players. The CD player starts to skip, and she goes to fix it and then like basically somehow Rocket launches it with her foot. Yeah. Into the crowd with that guy's [00:21:00] head.

And that just was really funny to me on those two levels. One, it's a CD player. Two. How powerfully did she kick this thing? Cause it was like a shotgun. It was hilarious. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. So basically, Katie's just like the whole movie is Katie trying to get Erin Samuels and take Regina down. Like it's even, I feel like it's indicative of high school culture and specifically high school culture at the time that like her sources of power are, and it just, honestly, just being a girl, being a woman your like sources of value and power, like is her body.

Mm-hmm. Like she has the most impressive body in everyone's opinion. And army of skanks. So, like her mm-hmm. Her like community, her support system and what was the other one? Aaron Samuels arm Candy. Aaron Samuels. Arm candy. So, mm-hmm. Yeah. So, it's like, what guy are you attached to? What's your social support and [00:22:00] how good do you look?

Mm-hmm. That's pretty. I don't like that, but that was what, that was what it took, so, yeah. Yeah. It seems, I didn't realize they, you know, they foreshadowed the bus thing so early, like literally the first, like, not even the first two minutes. Like Katie's getting ready to go to school and there's like the bus, and I was like, oh my gosh.

I didn't realize that was like at the beginning of the movie too. That bus is gonna, Kill someone someday.

Abbey: Well then, they, it's like, like have it at the end again with the junior plastics. Yeah, yeah. The freshman. Yeah.

Lyndsey: Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Oh man. Oh, this is not very important, but when she's breaking up the crown and throwing it to people, the girl who plays Emma Gerber looks like the sweetest human that ever lived.

Like, I don't know, is she for people? So yes. She just looks so genuine week girl for. She does, she has to. Definitely does. I believe it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then the little gasp that Damien lets out, it's just like the, yeah. It's [00:23:00] gotta be the best recorded gasp ever. I'm gonna have to find it. It's just, it's like sharp.

It has like a sharp cutoff. I think that's what makes it so good is like, it's like its own crisp sound bite. They were there like places you particularly felt like you saw yourself in this movie? Or is it like, kind of its own thing? So much? Like, for me, it was hard to see myself in this movie. I think I saw myself a little bit in the Katie part when she was early on, and she would like, kind of do anything to get some friends.

Yeah. But you know, I knew and you.

Abbey: were gonna ask me that, and I was like, uhoh, I don't, I don't, initially I thought, I don't see myself in this at all. Mm. Like, this was not my world in high school. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I didn't like drama. I hated it. Yeah. I kind of was allergic to drama a little bit. Like I always kind of like zoomed out of it.

Mm-hmm. But I thought about it some more and I was like, oh, no. I'm Janice.

Lyndsey: Oh, I think, [00:24:00] yeah.

Abbey: Mm-hmm. I mm-hmm. Hate that stuff. Like I, to my core, hate social climbing, hate, like, mean, same, like just being mean for means sake. Same. I, I lost friends in high school who were social climbers, and I was like, I'm just not about this.

Like, I have no desire to be a part of this game. No. I was very much like on the outs in high school because I, I didn't wanna play the game. I also like being an eight, like mm-hmm. Hated when people were mean. And I, I did not like bullies. I would call them out. Mm-hmm. I like insane. So, I got myself on the odds a lot with like popular people and I also wouldn't like give them the respect that they thought they, like

Lyndsey: I, oh yeah.

I will never kiss the, I will never kiss the freaking ring. Like I Oh yeah. Don't do that. And that again, to our earlier pre-recording conversation of why I don't thrive in political structures [00:25:00] sometimes is I won't kiss your ring just to kiss your ring cuz you have one like, yeah. It's, and I, if you stink, I'll tell you.

Like yeah, it's just not, yeah. I think probably, probably Janice would be the closest, but I think I never would've let myself even probably fully contemplate taking revenge.

Abbey: No. She was far.

Lyndsey: too spiteful and like mean and yeah. She had not healed down.

Abbey: I, yeah, I, I wouldn't have thought to do anything like that.

Mm-hmm. But I despised all of the, the drama, the nonsense that you think you're so much better than me. Who, who like really, like who do you think you are? I despised it. Yeah. Yeah.

Lyndsey: So yeah, I was always like even if I didn't really like personally like this, like someone or I, maybe I did think they were kind of gross, but like someone else was making fun of them, I would be like, no, we don't do that and I'm gonna get in [00:26:00] here and I'm gonna tell you you need to back down and like leave this person alone because Yeah, this is not how we roll.

Like as a, as a people, like as a society. Like this is not it. Yeah. So, yeah.

Abbey: No, and I mean if you can think about like really immature Abby, who is an eight who just fights like, I got myself into some awkward situations of just like, I will fight you. Like not, not physically, but I will not back down.

And it, yeah, it's a little cringey to think back because I, I, I could have handled that so much more politically.

Lyndsey: Yeah. And I could have, but like we were working at what we, we had at the time.

Abbey: Yes. You have to like have grace for your high school self and like if I, you didn't have your whole brain yet. No, and I've thought about this, like, if I could take, you know, in my fantasy world of what I would love to do, but I can't, it's impossible.

Mm-hmm. I would love to take all of my self-awareness, all of my self-knowledge, it's my self-compassion and give it back to my high school self [00:27:00] and say, go experience high school again with these tools and you will thrive. Mm-hmm. But you can't do that. So. Yeah. You're like, ah, that 10 years I can't give to you.

Or like how many years it's been now I don't, don't wanna.

Lyndsey: count. Yeah. But let's not, let's not. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, it's I, I used to cringe when I thought about that stuff. I feel like a couple years ago I reached a point where I was able to kind of step out of myself when I thought back about younger me, because, you know, younger me could be a little intense also at times, in different ways.

And You know, she was working with what she had and doing what she felt like she could do. And you know, just also trying to think of it as like, like, okay, if that wasn't you, but that was like a 10-year-old, like just that you knew and you saw them, would you, would you feel like they should be doing better?

Or would you just like, kind of understand why they were being that way? Yeah, like you would just be like, oh, you're being [00:28:00] 10. Like, so yeah, like when I interact with 16-year olds

Abbey: now I'm like, oh honey, yeah, it's gonna be

Lyndsey: okay. It's, it, it, I understand that it really feels like it won't, but it will be fine.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Abbey: But like, it really does help to have grace for them. Mm-hmm. And for yourself. Mm-hmm. And yeah, it's hard not to look back and feel the ick and be.

Lyndsey: like, Ugh. Oh yeah. I, I don't, I'm so

Abbey: disappointed in myself. But you, you, it was hard and

Lyndsey: you were working, you did what you.

Abbey: could do. Like you said, you did what you could do Also, everyone around you was like psycho.

Lyndsey: two and you are equally psycho, and you did not have this part of your brain yet.

Like mm-hmm. You did not have the full, full access to the prefrontal cortex. That is so, so helpful. Mm-hmm. You were full lizard brain a lot of the time and and so no wonder.

Abbey: High school is. As chaotic and awful as it is. Yeah. Because it is a pressure cooker of all of that nonsense with not just yourself and everybody [00:29:00] else experiencing all of their far ranges of whatever.

Yeah. So, it is just genuinely awful.

Lyndsey: Mm-hmm. It's just set up. No, I was like noticing how like when they put, when she's first there and she is like looking at everything very much through her like jungle lens and they have like kind of that jungle music in the background. I'm like, this feels like that's all it took for this to feel like, yeah, this is a jungle.

Mm-hmm. And it's because I think it's so translatable because ev it feels like at any moment something could erupt, like mm-hmm. Everyone is like kind of a powder cake. They're in their primal instincts. Yeah. Yep. They're very instinctual. Like, it's very reactive. Like at any moment. Mm-hmm. You don't know what's gonna happen.

And I, I think it's that after that day and she comes home, and her parents say something like did you make any friends? And she says, yes. And she, they say, we're people nice? And she says, no, no. And I'm like, the two questions side by side just always were like so [00:30:00] funny to me. And I'm like, yeah, okay.

All right. That tracks that is actually how your day went. But that's a very weird thing. The thing that you were, you were mentioning like, you know, Regina even kind of nagging her immediately she says you're like really pretty. And then she says she just being Katie and above everything else cuz she's not been steeped in this like, confusing.

Self-deprecation. She, yeah, she's like, you're really pretty. And she says, thanks. And then she goes immediately into, oh, so you agree? Mm-hmm. You think you're really pretty, really pretty. And like that's a problem somehow that she would agree that she thinks she's really pretty. Mm-hmm. And they also like really taken aback by that.

Yeah. She's like, she was like, what? I mean, what was I supposed to say? You said a nice thing like, yeah, what do you want from me? Exactly, Katie, what do they want from us? And then like later they're like, all in front of the mirror and like ripping themselves to shreds over. And I remember, I don't remember, I don't think about doing that, but like, when they were doing that, I remember doing that, like [00:31:00] being like, so like, like, oh, my eyebrows are so like thick and weird.

Or like, things that most of the time I didn't honestly have a lot of control over. Or like, I have more of a round heart face. Not like a skinny face. So, I thought I had a fat face. And like before contouring was a thing, was trying to figure out how to contour and like, you know, like that kind of stuff.

And things like I'm only five five, but I have like really long feet and like, oh, if I wear this kind of shoes, do my feet look really big? And we like just this like mm-hmm. Absolute nonsense that honestly, I haven't thought about in 10 years. And I'm like so glad that I haven't thought about it in 10.

Like, like everything,

Abbey: every inch of your body, there was something like you could

Lyndsey: just, there was something wrong with it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Like,

Abbey: it's crazy. I don't find myself doing.

Lyndsey: it to that extent. I would say no. I mean; I still am like big picture like, oh, I wish these pants fit better, or like, whatever, you know?

Like, no, [00:32:00] but I wish my not like, didn't break out or something,

Abbey: you know?

Yeah.

Lyndsey: Those are like, but legitimate, normal concerns, I feel like, of being a human. Like Yeah. Not

Abbey: aging on yourself. There's like a, a big acceptance of like, this is my face, this isn't my hair, this is my body. I'm working with it, you.

Lyndsey: know?

Yeah. I don't try to change what my face looks like every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was such.

Abbey: a type, there was such a standard of beauty, and it was Regina, you know, skinny. It was blonde. Mm-hmm. So skinny, pretty like there, there really wasn't much varying degree of beauty, you know, like you couldn't have like people who had curly hair, they wouldn't be considered the most beautiful or dark hair or like it was blondes at that time.

It was, it was everyone was their hair blonde,

Lyndsey: you know. Blondes and very, very skinny. And I was a brunette who has always been very average and average too slightly curvy. And like, it was like [00:33:00] just, I feel like it was probably college before I stopped. Like trying to think that I was like not, you know, like that was like, that somehow was like an attainable mark that we were all headed towards.

Mm-hmm. Rather than like, what's, what's good looking for me? Like what is healthy, what is pretty for me, like mm-hmm. Was a different, a whole different conversation. I've

Abbey: thought about it like recently and looked back at pictures of myself and like, I remember like the, it's like the body dysmorphia. I Oh yeah.

See pictures, I'm like, I was so skinny. Same. How did I think that I, same that I had any weight on me. Like I'm like, I'm a stick there. And I know that I was in turmoil.

Lyndsey: inside during

Abbey: that time because I was not skinny enough and that's impossible. It's like insane, but the body dysmorphia of that time, like, oh my gosh.

Mm-hmm. And we're still recovering from probably,

Lyndsey: yeah. No, and it's like, I mean, you think about it, and I do think yes, they are still picking themselves apart in high [00:34:00] school for sure. I think that's just part of the way the teenage brain works. But I do think there is a lot, there are a lot more representations of different types of beauty.

Yeah. There's a diversity media that they're looking at. Yeah. There's like, I can maybe reach for maybe I'm a real skinny Olivia Rodrigo, or maybe I'm more like, I don't know. They probably aren't caring about Demi Lovato, but demi lovato's more like, like, like a strong, like curvy kind of person. Mm-hmm.

And then there's like Lizzo and like, you know, futures. Yeah. Yeah. What you love

Abbey: that about actually this time is that the diversity of beauty and to be, to appreciate. That is really, if the generation is truly doing that in their high schools, like to their core. Good for you guys. Like you

Lyndsey: won up us for sure.

I, I really, I really hope that they're able to like, I hope that there's not just like weirdly someone out like that high schoolers are only looking at Margot Robbie. You know what I mean? Like, mm-hmm. She's great. She's gorgeous. Yeah. But like, I'm never gonna look like Margot Robbie. [00:35:00] Like, and so that's fine.

Like, you know, and I think there, there is a lot more of a spectrum of like people being praised for being beautiful and looking very different. Yes. Then there was when we were in high school in our formative years, trying to just survive and realizing we weren't going to look like Barbie. It just was a lot.

Abbey: Yeah. I do love that for right now. That is great. Yeah. For me, having daughters, that's like such like a breath of like,

Lyndsey: thank God, like maybe it's gonna be okay. Like

Abbey: maybe, I

Lyndsey: dunno, I'm terrified it's gonna be a little bit more. Okay. Yeah. They're both.

Abbey: uniquely beautiful and I can praise their unique beauty and like, say like this, you know, you're not gonna look like this, but you are so beautiful for what you are Yeah.

And who you are. Yeah. And like, yeah. I think that the culture will say that more now too. Yeah. So that's, that's exciting as

Lyndsey: a mom to girls. Definitely. Yeah, for [00:36:00] sure. Like I just even I was talking to, I think I was talking to Kyla and Vera about one of my favorite movies, my other favorite movie is Devil Wears Prada.

And I was like, it's a great movie. We're just gonna have to walk back some of the body stuff they talk about, because he says things like two became the new four and four became the new six. And she's like, well, I'm a, I'm an eight and oh, that's the new 14. Mm-hmm. And like some of that kind of stuff which I know they were joking in that movie, but like, yeah.

Well even at the time.

Abbey: though, that was probably still more true in the fashion industry because the fashion definitely has been a little slower to catch up. They were, especially modeling and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. I think that like pushing that with models has been kind of more a recent thing, but if, yeah, you think about.

Models and like the standard mm-hmm. With zero. Mm-hmm. And I, but I do think that because it, people died, like, you know Yeah. [00:37:00] With they did bulimia and anorexia did, they did. And that really kind of started to like to put the eyes on the industry mm-hmm. And really say like, you cannot have these incredibly awful standards of zero.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't think zero is like the new two

Lyndsey: anymore. No, it's not. It's definitely not way more, that was like 2006 or something, but, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that was, that was like, I mean that was so much of this movie though, honestly was like her, like her social capital. Like she was able to, I think she could have been just as smart and just as like whatever, but if she didn't look like she.

Like Regina George would not have been Regina George. Like, and that is, that is being a, a woman, you know, like, you kind of have to almost like look the part to get your foot in the door and then if you've got the goods, like mm-hmm. You know, I think there's just like that extra layer sometimes that, and, but she was always.

Abbey: working to maintain it, you know?

She was, and that's [00:38:00] where the army of Skanks came in, like always having to maintain it even though she had it, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She had the arm candy, she had the body, she had the friends, but she always was still holding it like Yeah, tooth and nail. You know? Yeah. Because it could flip away that

Lyndsey: fast.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's definitely like a I think in any kind of like political or like power dynamic, there's like a real big like scarcity mindset and it's like, I have to hold onto this because there's not enough for everyone, and someone else might take this from me. And it needs to be mine. And I just think that that is like, it's so toxic.

And. You know, I mean, just because people like you, if they like someone else, it doesn't mean they like you less just because they also like this other person. Like, but that's such a high school mindset of at least when I was in high school, I feel like I don't wanna like put that on everyone, but like, I feel like that just scarcity mindset and just like, because it is so primal.

[00:39:00] Like you are so like mm-hmm. In your body, in your emotions, in your hormones. Mm-hmm. And like it's just everything feels do or die and you like have to clinging to it for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. On Wednesdays we wear pink.

Abbey: Yeah. Do you remember when we were in college and the anniversary? October? Or? No, I mean it was October 3rd came up and its October and it was on a Wednesday and we were,

Lyndsey: I do, it was, it was a big deal.

It was a big deal. It was a big deal. That was a moment. It was like the stars are aligning. October 3rd is on a Wednesday. That

Abbey: was when we were in college and we're all like, we must wear pink. Cuz it's October 3rd and its Wednesday.

Lyndsey: Fantastic. It's fantastic. It was a great day. I don't remember what happened, but I do remember being excited about it.

But yeah, I don't think anything happened. It was just, I don't think anything happened. I think we just wore pink, and it was fine, but like, yeah, we all went to class and that was it. Yeah. Yeah, so their rules too, like their rules are very much about like maintaining that persona and that status. And they're all very, like, I think for the most part, pretty much tied to [00:40:00] their appearance.

And I was kind of digging in a little bit on some of these, like thinking about them like, okay, what's underneath that? Like what is that really implying? You can't wear a tanktop two days in a row? Is that so you don't look like too slutty? Like you're not like showing too much skin. Like that's kind of what that one feels like

Abbey: to me.

I thought that was the same tank, top tank. Tank top. And I was like, oh yeah, that's gross. Don't wear the

Lyndsey: same. No, you can't wear a tank top two days in a row. Oh, you also, and I'm thinking it's probably like your hair up more than one day. Well, yeah, because like, that's like lazy. The patriarchy once you're haired down, so it's prettier.

Yeah. Po ponytail

Abbey: once a week. Sweatpants only

Lyndsey: on Fridays. Only on Fridays because that's like a casually socially acceptable day. And very much like you have to I think it was just like, you have to try harder than this. Like, cuz it's, I mean, very much the staple when we were in high school was like jeans, t-shirt, like mm-hmm.

And like that was kind of the outfit. It was jeans in some kind of shirt. And I, they were very [00:41:00] much like, oh, I'm gonna wear a dress, I'm gonna wear a skirt, I'm gonna wear like these kinds of pants like that apart. Yeah. They had to be fancier. Mm-hmm. And then the very much like, you have to like to ask everyone's opinion before like doing anything.

It speaks to Regina. I mean it speaks to Regina's. I think it was on power controlling. Yeah. It was that. And it was Gretchen being very insecure and accepting it.

Abbey: Yeah. Because we're, because Gretchen couldn't wear hoop.

Lyndsey: earring. Because it was, yeah. I wore these in honor of Gretchen today. Nice. And I

Abbey: think it was more to Regina's power, like how she was just diabolical and knew how to hold power with them because what she got kicked out and she goes, she was wearing sweatpants that one day and she was like, well, these are my only pants that fit me.

And they were like, well, the worlds were real, and I wore a vest. And she's like, cuz that vest was disgusting. And like, the rules applied, but only to them, not really to her. Mm-hmm. Like she was above the rule until they all [00:42:00] decided like, we're kicking.

Lyndsey: you out. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was an awkward, like, she was still like defending her rules, like you were saying, even when they when she was like outside of them, she was like, no, I was, I was in the right then.

Like, mm-hmm. Well, the other thing, go, go ahead. No, I don't know. You go, I don't know either. No, I just think.

Abbey: Regina was just really smart. It wasn't all, it was just, I was like, it was mind warfare with her. Yeah. You know, it was, it wasn't just about holding power with her body or with her friends. Mm-hmm.

Or with her arm candy. She held power with mind warfare.

Lyndsey: Yeah. And like, she kept everyone in their place like, you need me. And also, if you don't do what I say, I will toss you out.

Abbey: I will destroy you. Cuz, she had the power to do so. Yeah. Yeah. Which kind of always made me wonder, why did she bring Cadie in or Cadie Katie.

I always wanna call her Cadie because her name was c a d y, which is [00:43:00] weird.

Lyndsey: That's a really good question. Maybe she was bored.

Abbey: I mean, she definitely didn't feel threatened by her in the beginning. No. She was very much like, what did she call her when they were at her house? And they, she was like, Katie, do you like a Martian do on the radio?

Oh, I love you. You're, she's such a martian. Like it was her little project.

Lyndsey: There was no threat. Yeah. I think that's what it was. And maybe it was like her, like community outreach, you know, like, look at me taking on this new girl and look at how great I am.

Abbey: Damien did call her a regulation hottie, like mm-hmm.

She was just standard hot, like she was gonna get picked up as being hot. So maybe Regina thought this could be a threat, but if I bring her in under me preemptively Yeah.

Lyndsey: She will not be a threat. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Groom her so she doesn't become like a rival. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That makes sense. Mm-hmm. That makes sense.

Which I think is, I'm guessing it was that in a combination of she was, yeah. In a combination of maybe like some boredom, like, and just like, I want [00:44:00] something, I mean, she is just a little bit vicious, like she just kind of. Wants to mess with people. Mm-hmm. And so, I think there maybe was a little bit of like, I'm bored.

Look, this sounds like something to keep me occupied. You know, like Yeah. Sometimes there's like kids that are smart, too smart for their own good. And I feel like Regina's maybe a little too smart for her own good. Mm-hmm. In that, like she,

Abbey: yeah, she was unnecessarily mean. Like with when she would tell people how she liked their clothing.

Her bracelet. Yeah. That was.

Lyndsey: psychotic.

Abbey: That was psychotic. What did she say? That's so love.

Lyndsey: Where did you get that skirt? Oh, I love that. The ugly effing skirt I've ever seen. Yeah. And

Abbey: then Katie remembers back to like what she said about her bracelet. Yeah. And she like, that was an interesting click because at that point Katie was like, she was really connecting dots.

Yeah. Uhhuh. And then she's like, she planned her own little flip with the

Lyndsey: mm. The candy canes. Mm-hmm. To break

Abbey: down Gretchen, she really started to dial it in more, to break down Gretchen at that point. [00:45:00] Yeah. When she was just starting to see how vicious and how mean she was.

Lyndsey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think what stopped her before was the fact that she would have to hurt Gretchen in the process to try to get to Regina, and I think that was like Katie's humanity, but then she, the anger, like superseded it.

It was like she has to be taken down almost maybe like, like a vigilante, like I'm doing the right thing here. Like by doing this because she hurts her all the time. If I take her down, then like then maybe she won't hurt her anymore. Even if I have to hurt her once like so.

Abbey: Yeah. Spiraled. She just started spilling secret spirals.

Well, yeah, yeah. But like, she's a mess. She just started cracking on everything. She's like, she's like, well, you know, their parents don't sleep in the same bed anymore, if that's what you mean. She's like, oh my gosh, we weren't supposed, I wasn't supposed to tell you that. Or like something about her nose job.

Oh my gosh. Like, you know, and then the Brutus.

Lyndsey: scene. Oh my gosh, that was hilarious. That was, which is totally just.

Abbey: Caesar.

Lyndsey: Yeah. Yeah. That was really funny. That [00:46:00] is really funny. That one always makes me laugh because she's like standing up in class pretty publicly, kind of losing her mind. Yes. Yeah. And it's so funny the one that we didn't talk about was Get in Loser.

We're going shopping. I love that one. That one I love. That one still uses great. Yeah, for sure. Sure happened. I'm sure you said that also they went to a physical mall. Oh yeah. I'm, I think we've all said it to each other at some point. Mm-hmm. But they went to a physical mall, that was something, and there were flip phones.

And that was hilarious. And

Abbey: There's definitely a lot of ways to date this film. Yeah.

Lyndsey: You know? Yeah. The thing, the thing that bothers me didn’t.

Abbey: feel like it was too

Lyndsey: dated. No, because there's not a lot of technology featured. Like it's not the main thing going on. Like, it's not like in the, this was all happening on, IM like, you know, like it was, you know, it was very much in the background.

The phones were like a side piece that they weren't like, mm-hmm. I don't know if you've ever seen like Jane the Virgin. There's a lot of like texting [00:47:00] being part of it and that kind of thing. Like this did not utilize that. It was more like faces, interaction driven, which I think helps. Mm-hmm. Keep it not feeling, aside from the fashion too terribly dated.

The thing that bothers me, I think the most that like starts to happen with Katie is. Dumbing down to get the boy like, ugh.

Abbey: Yeah. That, that was frustrating. Yeah. And she, she like, takes her grades. Trust me. She said, yeah. That was, that was frustrating because she said she did the only thing that she knew how to do.

I'm

Lyndsey: like, oh, yeah. Which makes me wonder, where did you learn that? Why did you know that? Yeah. Yeah. That like, I guess she was like asking for help and then he did say, well, it seems like you know what you're doing. Mm-hmm. So, she was like, well, I guess I'll just go all the way. So, I guess maybe she started with like, you know.

Yeah. And her don't who she was. I don't feel like that tracked. No, it almost felt like the math class maybe should have been like her sanctuary during all of this, you know? Yeah. Yeah. She wanted to be in the very weird Love that. [00:48:00] Yeah. She's, I also, one other thing, almost pinged on a boy too, all of it for this boy who, I don't, I don't get it, but you're like not convinced about, the other thing I noticed though, kind of coming back to this movie of like, is the, we don't use the word slut anymore.

That isn't word they for sure. Yeah. They for sure do in this movie. Mm-hmm. Skanks and Sluts Call. Yes. So, progress has been made that would not be said anymore. No. No. Correct. Correct. So that, that to me felt like, look at us guys. Look at what we're doing. We're mm-hmm. We're like growing as a society a little bit.

Also, the, I have, I have a note. The effing confidence of Regina George to walk out with that tank top with holes in it I know is like unparallel. Like mm-hmm. Give me just a drop of that, because that was crazy. It, it worked, obviously, but it was like, man, you really, just like Matt said something like this, that's a, he goes, [00:49:00] that's a baller move.

I was like, yeah. She just like went for it.

Abbey: Well, she also was wearing a very bright purple bra

Lyndsey: underneath a white it, it made it kind of cute. Yeah. I think if it had been tan, it would've been weird. That was very, no one would've made that choice. I only knew.

Abbey: people were seeing her bra, so

Lyndsey: she's like, For sure.

Well, whatever. Well, whatever you, she took you see.

Abbey: a little bit more. I took it as her power. She's like,

Lyndsey: this is my power. Yes, she did. Yeah. She's like, watch this. Oh, man. That, that was crazy. Yeah. This is like, there's just so many cultural layers to this movie. Like, it's crazy. So, you know, Katie's like on her crusade to take Regina out, she finally becomes like, for a hot minute, the queen bee, and she like mm-hmm.

Immediately, pretty much doesn't know what to do with it. He destroyed it and then has a, yeah. Has a party, destroys it. Like, and then Regina's pissed, blows up the whole school with the burn book, basically. Mm-hmm. And then gets [00:50:00] hit by a bus.

Abbey: Well, Katie does not intrinsically mean she No is not a mean girl.

That is why mm-hmm. She can't hold onto the. Because she would have to be a force. She

Lyndsey: would have to tough enough. She's not smart enough in the ways that Regina smart,

Abbey: not diabolical. She doesn't think that way. And so, like when Janice calls her out mm-hmm. Like she feels all of the feelings of everything that she has done that is wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. And she hates everyone. She is hurt. She talks about like, if you're by a snake, you have to suck the poison out. And so, I had to suck all the poison out of my life. Mm-hmm. And so, she, she, again, it goes back to the fact that this is such a well-adjusted child. She did not need to go to public school.

Lyndsey: No. You broke her guys. You broke her. Mm-hmm. Yeah. This took.

Abbey: her back. She didn't need to do all this, but like, she was not made to hold onto power. Like,

Lyndsey: no, like Regina. Yeah. The I think what makes girl bullying and girl dynamics so much more [00:51:00] toxic is this, like the veil that we put everything through.

Like, because we have to be socially acceptable and we have to like, do this, do that. Like, and we are like taught to be like socially reliant on each other, so we like, aren't supposed to violate certain norms. And like, so there's a lot of likes, shoulds being like shoehorned around, like what we actually feel and what we actually want to do and what we're like, you know, these big motivations.

Like, I want that boy, or like, whatever. And there's like, back to the musical again because I think it like, says something pretty well. It's, it's so good, Abby. Like, you're gonna like to lose your mind. I shouldn't. About how good it's should. I know it's all good. You'll, you'll love it. And then like you have a new favorite thing now.

Yeah. I, I promise you, you will. Janice sings a song that I love. It's called I'd Rather Be Me. And she basically says, I won't twist in knots to join your game. I will say, you make me mad and if you treat me bad, I'll say you're bad. Mm-hmm. Oh, [00:52:00] okay. I if, if I eat alone from this moment on, that's just what I'll do.

Cause I'd rather be me than be with you, man. The part where she, oh, I am Janice. That the part where she gets into it that feels like she kind of gets into this like female culture thing, is she says, we're supposed to all be ladies and be nurturing and care. Is that really fair? Boys get to fight. We have to share.

Here's the way that, that this, this one, like. It kills me. Here's the way that, that turns out. We always understand how to slap someone down with our underhand like, oh, like, oh, dark, but yeah. True. And then the, the best part when she's leading into the course, so here's my right finger to how girls should behave.

Cuz sometimes what's meant to make meant to break you, makes you brave. And she's basically just saying like, can't we just like have it all out guys and be like, done with it and like move on. Which it's just be real. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. No, it's this like, these social expectations that just reach a step too far that [00:53:00] aren't like, Helpful or reasonable, like it's mm-hmm.

It's a difference between being nice and being kind. Oh yeah. Like being, being kind is mm-hmm. To be clear and to be direct and to address things. Mm-hmm. You know, do things that like meaningfully and long term are like in your, and the other people like best interest, being nice is kind of selfish.

Mm-hmm. It's like avoiding the awkward social tension to do something that feels socially acceptable in the moment, but stuff your own stuff down and like create some toxicity. Mm-hmm. And. It's just not, it's not, yeah. It's not the way, it ain't it for a better way to say it. No, but like, yeah,

Abbey: no, I, I love talking, honestly, there's a book that I read it's called Nice Why We Like to Be Liked and how God has called us to more.

And basically, it's like saying what you just said, being nice and being taught to be nice, [00:54:00] why it is wrong, and how being kind is way more what we should be modeling because sometimes kind. Is uncomfortable sometimes kindness is like, I'm going to stand up to this, or, and I'm not going to like.

Lyndsey: allow, or we're not gonna let you continue in a bad pattern that's allowing you to show up in an unhealthy way in the world.

Like I'm not mm-hmm. Like, yes, it's bad for me and it's hurtful to me, but it's also not positive for you as a person Yeah. To be abusing me as a person. Like, and I'm allowing it. So, you are continuing to do it, like mm-hmm. It's, it's, it's trying to help course correct. A whole situation and it's, it's, I mean, you know, you, you get it.

Mm-hmm. Like you maybe are one of the few people that I feel like I can talk to and say really gets it on the level that I get it. If like, when you're the kind of person that can't can't. Let's see. Challenge, make your feelings appear. What? They are not, I was trying to like pull a [00:55:00] Jane Austen quote.

Oh. I'm just I've never been. Yeah, no, I can't, like, I'm physically uncomfortable if I'm mm-hmm. I've never been good.

Abbey: at cutting on a face of like, not being, i f i, it, it does go back to my personality. Like I've never liked being genuine and true to who I am. And even now I'm kind of like even more so in my life, I'm like, what you see is what you get.

This is who I am. Mm-hmm. And I'm very more confident or very more mm-hmm. I'm in a place in my life where I am more confident and self-aware and have a lot more self-love of like mm-hmm. This is who I am and I'm very happy with it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lyndsey: And I will not

Abbey: put on a face or try to be anything else.

Mm-hmm. And yeah. You know, I think that kind of actually ties into the end of the movie. And what was me. Favorite thing, the big takeaway mm-hmm. Was that like they all went into the things that were made for them and were designed for them. Like, so Katie was finally allowed to go back into the athletes and really [00:56:00] enjoy it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And Gretchen is in the lacrosse team, and she is thriving, and I just kind of like saw this as like, see how this is how it's supposed to be when people are allowed to step into their realm of their space. Mm-hmm. What they were designed for, how they thrive. Mm-hmm. And when you had put them in those boxes of like what they were supposed to be, that they did not thrive and everything was out of whack, but this, the entire flow, the jungle, the system mm-hmm.

The high school was so much more at peace when people were doing what they were designed to be doing mm-hmm. Be doing. Mm-hmm. And I don't think you ever, you know, really, you never really see that in high school, but like mm-hmm. For me, one of my big takeaways was like, especially as a mom, what I desire for my children.

More than anything is that I would be able to put enough self-confidence in them, self-awareness in them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And push them into their interests and support them in their interests. Mm-hmm. And what they thrive in enough that they can hold [00:57:00] onto that. And like they'll be able to go into these high school pressure cooker situations.

Mm-hmm. And still say, this is who I am, this is true to who I am, and I will thrive in this known. And I didn't have that confidence in high school to continue to thrive in the areas that I was more designed and prone to. You know, I felt like I didn't like change, I didn't change for anybody, but like, I didn't have the confidence to really likes.

Own who I was. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Lyndsey: To be like out loud about it. Yeah. Like I

Abbey: couldn't be like out loud about the fact that I like to sew, and I like to do crafts and like I like to sing and I was really into musicals and things like that. Like I couldn't really thrive in it. I kind of held a lot of that back.

Mm-hmm. Because it wasn't cool and it wasn't, I wasn't getting me anywhere and I wasn't trying to be cool. Like I had said before, I was really against all this, but there was so much.

Lyndsey: pressure you didn't want that. It really

Abbey: friction. Yeah. It really stunted me. Mm-hmm. In my growth and development in those areas of my life.

[00:58:00] Yeah. Yeah. And now that I am in my thirties, And I'm like really rediscovering like the things that, like I find true joy and I find yes, like this is telling me and I love it and I'm gonna run with it and I really don't care if you like it or not. And I, mm-hmm. This is uniquely me. And so, what I hope to do is, cuz obviously I can't go back and redo high school and do that.

Even though that's my fantasy, I want to impress upon that with my daughters. Mm-hmm. I want them to have mm-hmm. Such ownership of like mm-hmm. What they enjoy and themselves mm-hmm. And what makes them unique, that they can walk into those really difficult spaces and do that. Mm-hmm. So that is my hope.

That was actually my big takeaway at the end.

Lyndsey: Yeah. For this, this whole movie. Yeah. No, I love that. I think it's definitely, it's, I think the takeaways feel like less mind games, more clarity for kindness’s sake. Like, just like we talked about a minute ago, just like, say what's wrong and move on. Like, rather than like faking and shoehorning all these like, social situations, like just be [00:59:00] straightforward and deal with your problems and then everyone will be okay.

And no one has to get hit by a bus. And and yeah. And like, and then I think, like you were saying, you know, the, the really, the rules are meant to like reign in variations. And like, so when everyone stepped outside of those plastics rules, you know, everyone could kind of be where they were meant to thrive and like mm-hmm.

I hope that generations coming up don't have to get to their thirties to rediscover things. I hope that they mm-hmm. Because I'm in the same boat. Ugh. Yeah. Thanks for being on today, Abby. This was a great conversation. I'm looking forward to talking to you soon. Yeah. Thanks for having.

Abbey: me.

Lyndsey: Thanks again everyone, for joining me today. I hope you had fun listening to us talk about this classic, classic Tina Fey film. I hope you maybe were able to reflect on if you're, [01:00:00] you know, the same age as Abby and me maybe able to reflect on some ways that you. Have made some growth since high school in a good way.

And, you know, maybe cultivate some compassion for those still in that phase of life as well as, you know, thinking through some of the things we might still be untangling. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you learned something. I hope you had fun. And until next time.