"My God. Are we gonna be like our parents?" The Breakfast Club with Krystal Shipps
Episode Description:
Lyndsey and special guest Krystal, discuss the breakfast club societal expectations of women, dance equals life, and much more.
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Hi everyone and welcome to episode 13 Epiphanies, a show where we'll explore questions about life, the universe, and being human through the lens of TV and film. In today's episode we'll be discussing the movie The Breakfast Club with special guest Krystal Shipps. I know Krystal from back in my grad school days.
We were at the same internship site and got to lead some group therapy sessions together and got to know each other pretty well and she's great and is currently a therapist in the Kansas City area. I'm sure you guys are gonna love her. We get into some great conversations about accepting others, empathy for the teenage experience, and society's expectations for females.
So we go all over the place and it's a great conversation and I feel like [00:01:00] this was one of those movies that is like on the top movie lists everywhere so like we had to talk about this at some point. Without further ado. Let's go. Thanks everyone for joining us again today I have with me my friend Krystal and we met in grad school And I'm gonna let her introduce herself a little bit before we get into today's topic Krystal.
Thank you so much Lyndsey I am so excited for this. I am Krystal ships. I live in Kansas City. I Am a mental health therapist. I'm personality wise. I'm an INFJ on the Myers Briggs and Enneagram four wing five Although, the one calls to me a lot, so I feel like maybe I have an alter ego. That's a one.
They're linked. They're for sure linked. Yeah, I am wife, adopted mom of two, stepmom of three, all are adults now. We just graduated our last Two weeks ago, very excited about that. And I don't know this, I'm just really [00:02:00] excited to talk about this. I feel like I've got a lot of really exciting things going on right now.
I've dubbed the summer of discovery in my life. I'm not having a ton of kids activities and all that. We're like, okay, I took a boxing class and I'm going to take some drum lessons and I'm going to maybe take a cooking class and. Learn how to cook. Yeah. My husband's excited about that one. I'm 45. I'm like who am I?
What do I like? What, how do I want to fill my time? And so it's just some pretty exciting things. We're also going to have our first grand baby in October. So some pretty cool things on the horizon. Yeah. Thank you. Awesome. Very cool. That's yeah. I love that you like declared it like this is the summer of discovery and I'm going to do all these things.
That's so fun. Yeah. No, it's interesting. It's something I feel like. We were talking a little bit before we started. We're not exactly the same age, but I do feel like... Like women are entering this season right now of who am I? What do I like? What do I care about? And it's been so interesting cause like a lot of my friends that I went to college [00:03:00] with and my roommate, I talked to her on the mean girls episode and we were just like, yeah, I mean I, when I was little, I was like into all these things and I was really passionate about this.
I was really expressive and I was really this, that, and the other. And just like remembering that part of you is there. And I think it's I don't know what's like. going on in the ether, so to speak, but I think there's some really, there's some really cool stuff happening because it seems like there's a lot of us just like rediscovering our usness, our uniqueness, and it's just Super cool because I feel like it gives so much freedom for other people to do the same and a little bit more comfort of being with each other, even of, Oh, she's free to be her.
So she's probably okay if I'm me too. And that feeling is on edge and is judged or guarded. And then just better things happen that way. Better conversations, better relationships. So that's so cool. I'm, I definitely am gonna be looking for some, hopefully some photos from the boxing class, obviously the cooking [00:04:00] class and all.
Yeah. I want to see some evidence. I want to see how well you're doing because the boxing class sounds impressive. I took trial. I'm not sure I'll go back. Okay. Okay. All right. It's pretty much, I felt like I had been hit by a truck for a few days. Yeah. So we'll see, but that's so funny. Yeah. So I said we met in grad school and I always like to say, okay, but how do you remember us meeting?
Or I, and I feel like. I know we met at internship, but I don't actually remember like how, when and suddenly I know Krystal and we're leading a group together. And I, it's funny, I think the last time I had one of these like discovery times is when I decided to go back to grad school. Cause I was definitely a second career therapist.
I didn't get my master's until I was almost 40, just a few months from being 40. And so I get to my grad school classes and get to my internship and everyone is. 24. And I'm like, will they like me? Will they think I'm old? You know what I'm saying? So it was [00:05:00] definitely one of those little existential moments, but yes, I remember everyone there was amazing.
And yes, I remember leading that group with you on boundaries, I believe. And I still love group therapy. Love it. It's just an amazing way to. to heal. So yeah, like I said, I don't remember that there was a, it was probably just one of those. All the new interns were going to get together. And then all of a sudden we just all knew each other.
Yeah, no, it was, I feel like I maybe had met you and maybe knew who you were. And then it was like, we were leading a group that night and I was like, all right, let's go do it. Let's do this thing. We got this. Yeah, no, that was such a good. challenging experience. I, because we, we interned at a church.
So that was layered for sure. And I feel like I grew and learned and changed a lot as a person during that time and was fortunate enough to encounter some really awesome, supportive, like minded people like you [00:06:00] and Sam and just other people on the team. Even some of the other counselors that were more established there.
I'm trying
There were just so many good people. it's been a minute for sure. But no, I just remember you were just so authentic and, Hey, here I am, and this is me, and jumping in with both feet. And I was like, yes, this is my kind of person. Okay, we will be fine leading this group together. We're gonna do this. We will not run this train off the tracks.
Yeah. Not too far. We'll get it back on if nothing else. Yeah. For sure. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So we talked a little bit about like you being on the show and you were like, I don't know what to talk about. And I was like, I don't know if I know what to talk about, but I want to talk to you. So I just was thinking through some, maybe some iconic movies that felt [00:07:00] important or like culturally significant.
Like this one gets referenced a lot, and we were both talking, we're not either of us super familiar with it. It was, we know it exists, we know that people reference it a lot. I think we all get the fist bump reference, and the two, two hits, you hitting me, me hitting you, and you hitting the floor. Some of those lines, but it's a little new to us.
So I was watching it, and I was, I don't know, this isn't, it's not really doing it for me. And then it was like, it was when, Bender. Yes, Bender, that's it. Huh. And when he starts to go off on everyone, and I was like, okay, I'm interested. It was like, I was like, nothing like, all right, let's see what this is about.
There's something here. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I guess I didn't actually say this. But it'll be, obviously, when they click it, they'll know. We're talking about The Breakfast Club. Yeah I, No, the first thing I wrote down, really, was, like, even just the way these kids are arriving to detention. They're pulling up, we see what kind of car they're in, how the discussion with the parents go, the princess [00:08:00] is, Why couldn't you get me out of this?
And this whole, she skipped class to go shopping. And I'm like, Oh, honey, do better. But that was her. That was where she's at. And that's why she was there. And we walked through all the other kids. Most of them pulling up in different situations with someone dropping them off in a car. And then Bender is walking up himself by himself.
He just walks across the traffic and into the school. And I thought that was interesting immediately. I'm like, all right. He did not arrive even like everyone else at least was in a vehicle. And he just walked up. So that was like telling a little bit, I thought. The next thing though was like once they're in there and the detention has started, he starts talking and one of the first things he says was something like about the princess girl, let's impregnate her.
And I was like, bro, you basically just said, hey guys, let's rape this girl. And I'm just like, What is going on and then he says a few more things like that and then the teacher comes back and he's what's going on In here [00:09:00] and I said out loud to my husband. I said I'm being sexually harassed, but it's 1984.
So So it's just what in the world is okay to say that was so crazy That's what I think is crazy to me about some of these 80s movies as well We said what now like I know and I was watching it with my husband Who's been teaching for 30 years and had did a stint as a principal? And we were like counting all of the things that would not fly these days.
It's probably just the fact of locking six kids in a room on a Saturday, letting them trauma bond with each other. Yeah. Never. And he's, he even at the start says, and you can't leave your seats. And I'm like, you can't do that physically. That's not like good for a person to sit all day.
We know that. Like you have to have bio breaks and it's just, that's yeah, it's such a different world. It was very hard like they all look so grown up. Yes, for sure. We also had to Google how old they were when the movie was. I think Emilio Estevez was like 23 or something when the [00:10:00] movie was filmed. Oh yeah, teenagers are never teenagers in these movies.
Yeah. No. Trying to watch the film with a lifetime educator and a mental health therapist. We were like, we got to take those goggles off and just watch it. My gosh. Yeah. It's hard though. Like you, it's really hard to not. Be looking at things in those lenses. That's just how we walk through the world, but yeah, there's so much that just Would not fly both on all sides like between the kids and between the teacher and the school system just like all of it and it was like I don't know even just, I don't even know if they do much Saturday detention anymore really.
I feel like it's been a while since I've heard of anyone having to go in on the weekend. Yeah, I don't think we do anything like that. I think the part that really was like, wow, is when Vernon locks Bender in the closet. We were like, oh my gosh, yeah, that would be a loss. Absolutely. Yeah, that was crazy.
He's like challenging him. He's go on, hit me. And if you [00:11:00] don't hit me right now, like someday I'm going to hit you and who's going to believe you and what in the world? Oh my gosh. Also, yes. And also he said, I had to look this up because I was like, Whoa, he says, I make 31, 000 a year. And I was like, I know it was a different time.
So I need to know what this was. It translated to about 90k. Yeah. So I needed to know that I was like, is this good? How good? I was like, Oh, pretty good. Yeah. So we made a little such a jarring thing to say it was, we made a little joke about living in Missouri. We're like, first year teachers don't make that much.
Like quite a gosh, not much more than that now. But yeah, he's pretty proud of himself for that salary, which pretty good It's so funny, which at the time was great, but that's so crazy how much it's changed and just yeah I think when I and like I said, I this is It's not a movie like I've really seen a lot and so it's not one that like I have a lot of nostalgia or attachment to and so I'm like re watching it.
I think I've seen it one other [00:12:00] time and I'm like, man, this feels a little slow and like most of the dialogue that maybe is interesting is like just making me uncomfortable. And then all of a sudden, Bender starts reenacting what he thinks everyone's families are like and then he gets into his and I'm like, Okay, I'm paying attention.
Yeah. In my notes, I wrote that as the shift. Because it was like, Yeah. At the beginning, Claire and Andy just had that disgust for him. Oh, he's the worst as a person. He's whatever. And then the shift, you could see it. And then they start to even stick up for him when the principal comes back in or whatever.
Oh, he didn't do that or whatever. And it was that shift of, It reminded me of that quote the more you know about a person's story the harder it is to hate them So it was like, oh, yeah there. He's suddenly a human and maybe hurting and oh You could just feel the whole room shift a little bit. That was pretty powerful scene.
I that was really yeah, I wrote down where they [00:13:00] were He says, I don't believe you. He like shares all that and then the jock is I don't believe you and then this all this He like basically explodes even more all over about what it's really shows the cigar burn and all this stuff and then Bender walks away And she says to him you shouldn't have said that to the jock guy and he says I know it was like She's, you really shouldn't have said that.
He really has it rough. We need to not be unkind to this person that is hurting or doesn't have a support system. You shouldn't have said that. Yeah. You shouldn't have discounted his experience. And he says, I know. And I wasn't expecting that from him. I expected a defensive. Why I was a jerk and why it was fine.
No, I really wasn't expecting him to acknowledge that, yeah, I crossed a line and I should have been kinder to him. And that to me, I was like, oh my gosh, there's a little bit of heart here already. Yeah. A little bit of care for each other. A little bit of softness. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Like, when he says, I don't believe you, I don't think that's real, and I was [00:14:00] like, the turkey pot pie reference was just a shade too specific.
That was definitely he had that exact sentence in that exact conversation. He was just replaying something play by play, and yeah, that was, and yeah, like you said, they started trying to stick up for him and that kind of thing and then they all decide they're gonna wander the halls together and which is funny because the brain brainiac kid is like arguing with why are we listening to why are we doing this and i'm like buddy why are you there then you could have stayed back the same thought i was like you're really like trying to say they should be doing something else but you don't have to be doing this at all so So interesting.
Yeah, he was interesting. This, we get to the point eventually where they all recognize that the thing that really bonds them is this like sense of pressure, a sense of pressure to either to be something, whether it's like, Something good or expectation that you will be bad. There's just the pressure of...
This whole movie starts out [00:15:00] with them talking about the labels you have for us. And this reductive one descriptor of who we are. Yes, very one dimensional. I, yeah, I always... One of my favorite things that I feel like I say to people all the time, I'll be like, listen, I contain multitudes. We all do.
But yeah, it's, they're not just these things, for sure. It reminded me, too, I work with a lot of teens as a therapist, and I've worked with Benders, and Claire's, and Allison's. Her character was interesting to me, and it just brought me back to the fact that teen problems can be so easily dismissed by adults as not big problems.
What could you possibly have to worry about? You're in high school. It was like, looks can be deceiving. And that just reminded me to take it more seriously or to refresh that, that need. As a therapist. Yeah. I think I may have shared about this on a different episode. I think it might have been the [00:16:00] one where I was talking to, I don't know if you've ever seen Dan in real life.
I think that was the one because she gets really dramatic, the daughter does, about this boyfriend that her dad won't let her hang out with. And she says, you are a murderer of love and she screams it and it's like guttural. And she's 14 and we were talking about how that's like a little bit funny to us but I just remember.
I, we both did the master's in counseling, but I also did undergrad in psychology and my psychology professor in probably my, it was either my freshman or so, I think it was my sophomore year. I took a childhood and adolescent psychology and she was talking about, we're all, most of us are like 19 or 20 at this point.
She says, you are closer to this phase of life, this teenage phase of life than you will ever be again. Remember what it was like. Remember it. Like she's make note of those feelings in your brain and remember how big everything felt and how like out of control everything felt and how chaotic and just dire and [00:17:00] alone and just remember those things and have compassion.
Oh yeah. And that really of all the things I'm sure I learned a lot more in that class but I that's the main thing I have really remembered because I do I remember being in that seat and wishing someone had been that way towards me. And you said it, adults, it's really easy to lose the perspective that these things do matter to them.
And to understand that their way of even, teenagers feel more like adult to us because they can communicate in more sophisticated ways, but we're looking at them in their heads though. Yeah. Like they're tall enough. They're tall enough. They look, they can pass for adults on the outside maybe, but prefrontal cortex development is not there all the way.
And also bathing in so many hormones that like even the best kids, even the most behaved, logical, good kids, brainiac kids, whatever, everything feels like on fire. And so it's, and they're surrounded by other people, the main [00:18:00] people in their life are their friends and their lives are also on fire.
So they are chaos, surrounded by chaos, bumping into each other all the time and trying to just feel like they know what's going on and like where they're supposed to be and who they're supposed to be. And it's just a lot. I remember it being a lot. And I just, I'm so grateful to that professor for asking me to make that mental note while I still have it.
Because I had, I've had several people just over the years, there's a person in town and we were talking about it and she's telling me about her daughter who is like I think 14 at the time and just how hard it was and I said, Oh my gosh, no, it's hard for everyone involved. It's hard for her. It's hard for you.
Like it's. It's high school, junior high, teenage life is just hard for everyone involved. So I'm always just like really empathetic for all involved parties, but I just remember telling her like, she won't be like this forever because like they're even the good kids go through a phase where they're like antagonistic and angry and like frustrated and you don't know anything.
Don't [00:19:00] stop talking to her. Don't stop listening. Do not stop. She won't be like this forever, but she might not talk to you anymore if you drop off in this phase. It's just just. Hang on, because it's worth it, but don't give up on her, basically, because it's so intense to be the receiver of that, too.
You're like, wait a second, I do all this stuff for you and you just want to yell at me and be nasty and like, where's my good kid? And I just, I remember telling her that and she's, thank you for saying that. She's, I have been, but I was on the edge. I was ready to throw in the towel and I was like, just hang on a little bit more, just a little bit more.
And she'll really appreciate it because I remember being that age in my parents. I did hang on and I had some friends, parents who did not, and the difference was felt like for sure in our experiences then and later. For sure. One of the best things I've heard recently is when someone I think maybe even was on TikTok said, when your kids are teenagers, what they need from you is to be the equivalent of a plant in the corner of the room.
It's there. They see [00:20:00] it. They know that they can talk to you if they need to, but like the plant doesn't do anything. It doesn't hover. It doesn't pry. It doesn't. So it's simply just hang out, just be and let them be available. Let them be the one to come to that, which is funny because like when I was thinking about this movie and that, that thing, the Andy, the jock, like his dad was not a plant. His dad was like, you must succeed. You must push and all that. And then of course, Bender's dad sounds like a complete train wreck. I just loved that almost a little bit more hands off. I'm here, open arms, but not dragging them or pulling things out of them.
I think that probably does more damage. For sure. But it's, I, it's hard because I don't have kids, but I am in a lot of situations. the fixer. And so it's hard for me not to just want to jump in and fix things for other people just in general. So I can't even imagine when it's your kid to just be like, jump in and tell them how it ought to go because you see how it'll [00:21:00] go wrong if it goes a different way.
And it's one thing I talked to a lot of parents about is the difference between safety and preferences. If it's a safety issue, you should jump in, say, substance use issue. If it's a, they're out and we don't know where they are. If it's a, they're doing something self to self-harm, we have to jump in. But if it's just a preferences, I wish they wouldn't date that person or I wish they wouldn't wear that.
Picking those battles. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, that's, it's tricky and I feel like we hear though the like effects in this movie of what it, in a lot of different angles what it feels like when the parents try to be more or less, I don't know, but. Yeah they just all seem to speak to some kind of pressure of expectation or whatever.
Even that line where they, where one of them says, God, are we gonna turn up like our parents? Is that what our trajectory is? And they were all [00:22:00] mortified. All of them were mortified that their parents were the last people they would want to emulate. Which was really eye opening, too. Yeah.
Yeah, and because it feels to them, their parents are, in those moments, they're just people who don't want to see them and people that are squishing someone else and that feels like not what they want to be. They're receiving it. They definitely don't want to do that to someone else. But I do also think in ways in that room they were doing that to each other.
They were putting those Parental expectations on those other people and those stereotypes and things and just like already you want to think you're Will you turn out like your parents you already are? Living out those things in this moment by judging each other by Expecting only certain types of behavior from each other and that kind of thing.
So that was an interesting thing I had a question that I want to share with you about because it's I think a good one For maybe a [00:23:00] professional to delve into here. Why do we like bad boys? Oh gosh. That's a great question. I really wish I knew the intricacies of that. I think really it's because they are courageous enough to be authentic.
And so the princess, she probably wanted to light something on fire. She probably wanted to run away and go through the air vents. And she probably had the But he lets He shows her that it can be done and she just has the barrier up. So it's almost like he has a freedom. Yeah. To be himself, truly himself that she doesn't have.
Yeah. I feel like in this case, this scenario especially. That's what I thought as well. I just, I definitely wanted to see what other people thought of that, but to me, I think it feels like having been the teenager that was like definitely walking the line, I think it, it feels you're stuck in that box.
You're stuck in that rules, in those lines. And someone else. Knows how to or [00:24:00] doesn't care to color outside of them and it's okay I'm interested in that because that seems free and fun. I wouldn't be as destructive as them but Man, I could breathe and I think it's also that's interesting just in general like on a person But then there's also maybe if I attach myself to him.
Yeah, like he can pull me out of these With a car at the end where he said something like you want your parents to fight? I could help with that basically or you want Something about attention. I can help you help your parents hate each other more or something. I don't know exactly how he said it, but he knew that him being in her life was going to be a recipe for some chaos there.
Yeah. He's, this is not what they want for you. I'm not it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I loved the, one of the most, I think I loved the diamond earring part at the very end, because to me, that was her saying, we're not that different. because that was something he really focused on when they were all sitting around in what I call like the group therapy scene [00:25:00] and he was talking about her diamond and all that and she gives it to him bridging the gap this isn't that big of a deal to me you're not that much different than I am I thought that was pretty well done John Hughes yeah no yeah there's so many of those little I feel like there's a lot of little things in this movie that like just like small exchanges the big ones don't seem to like Honestly feel like they move the except for the initial explosion where you talked about like the turn The big things really don't feel like the important things honestly in this it's like the little quiet moments like what the group therapy scene when That he's we finally find out why the Brainiac kid is there and oh, I know gosh that was He was the kid that I related to the most of all of them because I was so perfectionistic and anxious and academic as a kid.
I had, I just felt like a weird little outsider. I was in a [00:26:00] very, I was raised in a very small town, very small school. I had 19 in my graduating class and lots of self inflicted pressure because my family was in turmoil. I had a whole bunch of other stuff going on. I felt school was where I can be something.
So I remember being in fifth grade getting my first B in art and I thought that B stood for bad Oh, no, like I did. I really did to myself. Yeah, I know it doesn't I told my mom I was like, basically what he said, I don't get B's I don't get D's. I don't get F's like that. That's when they say, and when he was definitely the one that I thought of all of them in high school, that was closer to how, what my pressure felt like it was just, it was definitely self and his was a little bit parent inflicted, but mine was a hundred percent self inflicted and parents are not academic people.
They did not have expectations for me except just do your best, but it just became my identity was being smart or capable, but yeah, he that his that kind of broke [00:27:00] me there, too One of the things he said in that scene that I wrote down as one of the more I don't know poignant I guess lines as he says so what happens on Monday?
Yeah, that one that whole conversation got me I was like yeah, because we are still who we are and like It's really, and then Bender gets mad, Bender gets so mad in that conversation and I was like I'm tracking with you, Bender. That was the first time. I was like, yes, I have no caveats. Like he says, that's a shitty thing to do to someone.
That's to like, he's, I'm mad because you're being, not because you're being honest. Yeah, sure, be honest, but I'm mad because better. This is not how you should treat a person. Why don't you have the confidence to who you like? And I was very, never been a gamey person. So in terms of. Playing the politics or anything.
I would just, and it is hard sometimes. Like it's, I think it comes more natural for me [00:28:00] to do it than a lot of other people. Like I would be the one that'd be like, this is my friend now, and if you're going to be a jerk about it, I'm going to point out why that's a dumb thing to do. But it doesn't mean I wouldn't be like, my back would be sweating the whole time.
You know what I mean? I'd be like tense and hot and be like, I'd be doing it. But I'd be like, I hate this. I feel in conflict and I don't like it. And I feel on the outside, but yeah, no, his like, it's just such a hypocritical thing to do. We're here. We're being real. And then we're like, Monday, you can't like be a real person.
So it's almost like he had jumped ahead in that. He was almost the adult going, why is your prefrontal cortex still so bad? Like, why are you still being so childish when, and, yeah, I, that was a pretty, that line hit me hard because I was always the kid in high school that someone was sitting alone.
I really hated that. And so it was like, come sit with us or whatever, but it was not always easy [00:29:00] to do. And I knew that I always was going to get some like social backlash. Yeah. So I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I was not an extrovert, so I was never super good at the go out of my way to be inclusive, if included, but if someone was gonna, I might be mad and also annoyed at you, but if someone says something that's out of line or is picking on you, I'm gonna come at them so hard and we're gonna end this right now because I'm like, this is not how we are as people.
We did not do this. We don't pick on underdogs, they're not here to represent them, so sit down and be quiet. And it was one of those things I did, I instinctively did, I didn't really know I did it until I was in probably... Sophomore or junior year. And my best friend growing up was, it was a guy, he was like my brother and he's, Oh, that's Lyndsey always sticking up for the underdog.
And I was like, it caught me off guard, but it was also like, I was like, do I do? Yes, I do. I guess that's what I'm doing, but I just didn't really think about it, but it just, I was just like, that's not what [00:30:00] we do. Like we just, whoever the, we is not what we do. We don't treat each other that way. And yeah, you're right.
I think he just. Bender, I feel, maybe the benefit not having an in group and you just, through all the political nonsense of high school, and you just are able to see, I don't have an in group and here's why there's all these things, and it's not even good for them, and I think he's able to see that because he's not included.
Yeah. I think it's just, it's a little hard sometimes to watch because it's the 80s and Norm's that we're fine. Norm's that we're okay. Like he's under the desk and the panties shot and like that whole whoa, okay. And now we're just going to move on with the rest of the day. And she's just supposed to go on.
That was fine. And I'm like, okay. And the one thing though that I, I think it's the Basket Case Girl's comment that where she says you're, it's like double, like basically she's talking [00:31:00] about the virgin, the whore dichotomy of being a woman. It's we don't want you to be a prude, but you, if you're into it or you have sex, like you're a slut.
And so it's you can't really win. And if you don't want to have it, but if you do want to have it, you wish you didn't like. It's, I was like, that's pretty much, that's still the same as 40. Yeah, I was like, all right, they were that, yeah, that unfortunately has not changed and we're still in that boat.
And that's just so interesting, even socially, like in this movie. He's talking about like why don't you stand up to your friends, but also for a girl that's different That's harder. Like we are like Supposed to be connected supposed to be like in community and sharing with each other. We're not like good loners I think it would never be a two guys Teenage guys are rolling around on the ground punching each other and ten minutes later their best friends again.
Oh my god is very little social fallout [00:32:00] disconnection with boys and then with women, it is. Yeah. Not only is this friendship over, but I'm probably also gonna trash you. I'm gonna make your life miserable. Yeah. I'm curious, are you a like, musical theater fan? yeah. Have you listened to the Mean Girls Broadway soundtrack?
I will. Okay, add that to your list. There's this one song in particular, and I If anyone has listened to all of the episodes, they're gonna be like, you've already told us this. She hasn't told me this! But it's a really good... Listen, I'm gonna tell Krystal this. I think it's called Rather Be Me. And it's Janice's song.
Basically, she's saying, I'm not gonna play games. I'm gonna tell it like it is. And I'm gonna just go with what I need to do to be myself. But this is the part. The second verse. We're supposed to all be ladies and be nurturing and care. Is that really fair? Boys get to fight. We have to share. Here's the way that turns out.
We always understand how to slap someone down with our underhands. [00:33:00] It's just, it gets so much more toxic and convoluted because we're not allowed to express like a moment of disagreement. Like we're just supposed to like always be in almost compliance with whatever the social Overarching power system in the moment is and so when we're not it's like you've created a problem in a rift And that is not okay and but I'm not going to do that So I'm gonna almost act like it's fine, but I'm probably gonna just sneakily like just Chaos in your life or just frees you out and the next line is, so here's my right finger to how girls should behave.
So that's like my, that's my favorite line probably from that song, but that, yeah, no, just that idea. Like you were talking about, boys are allowed to roll around on the floor, get it out and be done and we would be totally psychotic about that. And I don't know how much of that's conditioned. We would potentially be committed.
I don't know how much of that's conditioned and how much of that is. Yes. which is biological. Just if the way that anger [00:34:00] manifests is different. But I think so much of it's conditioning. I just do. I think so much of it is conditioning because we've all felt like we wanted to do that. It feels physical.
You want to just smack someone or whatever and we get those same urges. We just know that is never on the table. And it's maybe It definitely shouldn't be on the table for anyone, but I think maybe just the allowance of more... To me what that is a physical representation of a problem.
It's really blatant. It's really obvious. You can't ignore it. They're fighting. It's out there. Whereas we're not even necessarily sure we're allowed to say that we're mad or inconvenienced or upset or frustrated. Be fine and cool. Don't have needs. It's all just supposed to be cool. Don't have needs.
No. Yeah. Be, just be like... Just be in Tupperware until someone like decides to pay attention again. Like it's fine. Like you should just be fine I just think there's a lot of that social like just be fine. Don't be high maintenance. That's the [00:35:00] word. That's the word. Don't be high maintenance. The high maintenance is needy versus we're in relationship or we're in community And I'm saying you affect me Yeah, another thing I was going to mention too is the transformation of the Allison character, right?
And all of a sudden, Andy is, oh, you're acceptable now, right? Oh gosh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's always the way, isn't it? She's all that callback. Oh, she took her glasses off. Now she's pretty. And I was like, they're just, oh, it's so cringey. And I thought, it's unsustainable. You just need contacts and a better haircut.
That's right. And then you're fine. That's it. I just, I wanted that to not be in there. I wanted him to see her anyway. Yeah, and I, maybe someone else, but I was like, cringe, no, don't do that, no. Yeah, no, there were, yeah, there were a couple things like that. I was like, these character, these female characters were not written maybe as.
It's nuanced [00:36:00] or complexly as would have been nice to be represented. For sure. The girl goes to detention because she like skipped class to go shopping. So basic. Come on. Thank you. Okay, sure. She didn't like skip to go to a concert or it was shopping. Yeah. It was like real stereotypical, real cringe.
Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was like. Tricky for me is when there's like that oversimplification of I'm like, yes I know sometimes there are those people but this is the only character in this movie like this and this is what we're giving her So let's maybe try a little more. But yeah, no that whole transformation thing It's such a trope.
It's such a, I think I did a reel about it because I was like trying to think of I had, I've done a couple reels where I said what I learned from rom coms and what I learned from rom coms is you're probably not ugly, you probably just need contacts and a better haircut. Absolutely, and maybe some lip gloss.
And then maybe some lip gloss, couldn't hurt. But the whole ugly duckling thing is just, the ugly duckling thing is so worn out. [00:37:00] Yeah, it is, yeah. In 1984 maybe they were just getting started with it, I don't know. They were just like, this is a new idea, what if we made girls you didn't think were pretty?
It would be good if we could see that he sees her, or that they, maybe it doesn't have to be a relationship, maybe they all see her. Yeah. And she feel, feels like her energy feels transformed because they see her. Yeah. Rather than I have to be totally different because maybe she wasn't doing her hair that way or whatever because she just didn't know how and maybe she did need help maybe that's what she wanted or maybe she liked being the way she was but she now feels like she needs to be this other way and now she's got just a different kind of pressure.
Because I'm thinking, what happens when she shows up to school on Monday? Is everyone like, Oh, look, she finally got some makeup and she finally did. No. I'm like, why does that, why is that such a big deal? Yeah. She's still the same person. So yeah, [00:38:00] it was a. Yeah. That part I just wish wasn't in there.
I was like, oh, why did we do this? Why did we do this? No, it's it's such a, we're taught so young that is our social capital is our appearance is so much of that. I remember one of the first. Like guys, he was like a friend, but he was flirty. Like I was probably 13 maybe. And he said to me, you could be really pretty if you wore makeup.
And so I'm 13. So what do you think I did? I went and found, I went and asked my mom to either, I think at the time Avon was a big thing. So probably we ordered some cause I didn't know what other makeup you used, if that was what my mom was using. But yeah, no, it was very much, I guess if I want to feel valuable in this new, cause in 13 you're like, you're entering the like teen world, like you're not in it yet.
So you're like, I guess if these are the rules, this is what I do. And of course you wanted to be pretty. He told you, he just gave you the roadmap. [00:39:00] You want to be pretty? Wear makeup. Awesome. I just got the inside track. You already were, you were already pretty. We're all pretty. We're all cute. We're all just fine.
And it just. Yeah. It's gross. It just makes me think of, what's that show, How I Met Your Mother, when Barney Stinson would always neg a girl and he would just find the weirdest, grossest angle to say something that was like, tear her down and make her need you kind of thing and it was just awful.
Yeah. So gross. You're just like, no, don't do that. She's great. Please stop being disgusting. But, yeah. But also just this idea you could probably tell a guy you'd be a lot cuter if you got a haircut. He might not care. Yeah. He'd be like, what does it matter if you think I'm cute versus I'm like, this is how I belong.
This is how I like get you to pay attention to me or get friends or like whatever. It's interesting that you took that. So different. Input [00:40:00] from a guy, which I think I've, I feel like most of us, adult women take what we think is attractive from other women. Like it's more of the, we're looking at other women and Oh, I bet they think she's.
We're not really necessarily taking the feedback from the men directly. It's we're looking around at each other and Yeah, and I was probably the only one not wearing makeup. True. At this point. Yes. But yeah, this, I think I took it from him because I was, I think I already was feeling that way. Cause it's like when you're 13, it's what am I, a kid?
I don't really feel like a teenager yet, but I definitely don't feel like a kid. But I don't really know and everyone else my age decided they were going to jump in with both feet and I was, I don't know, this feels like a lot and getting that feedback I was like, I guess that's one thing I'm supposed to do to fit in here, but poor girl.
She tried her best. She tried her best. She did. She was 13. She didn't know her head from everything. We're going to give her some grace. [00:41:00] We're going to give her some grace for taking advice from a stranger. Stupid jerk. That's right. But, yeah. Yeah. I think part of, I just, one of the things that, I don't know, I just felt like this reminded me, like, all of us are doing the best we can with what we have.
And I use this analogy a lot in therapy of, let's say that you left home with a toolbox and you had the Claire and the Andy or the Brian family. You have in your toolbox to build a life, you have a drill and a saw and a hammer and nails and all that. And then you, some people have a toolbox, like Bender and Allison, which has a stick and a rock in it and they're supposed to build the life.
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It just reminded me of, cause I'm always forecasting to take these kids 10 years down the road. Are the barriers in their way too big? Are they, is Bender just like his dad? Is he working in a blue collar, low level, maybe he's talking about the janitor. The custodian was a funny guy in that movie too, funny little character, but it was good.
And I just, at the end, I. I had [00:42:00] never seen it. Like I said, I think I'm the only Gen X person alive that had never seen this movie. My husband was appalled. And I was like, I love that. I loved that. That was, there were so many good reminders and just perspectives that were important to remember. I think.
These kids were, these kids in this movie were doing the best they could with what they had and their parents, unfortunately, were doing the best they could with what they had. Hopefully each generation, the toolbox gets a little more in it. And then that sort of thing, but no, it is important to note that someone's degrees of freedom, they're different for everybody I, I have a pretty broad range of that, but I know a lot of other people, whether it's biologically or situationally, don't have as many Mentally available options to them.
So they're doing what they can with what they have. And I think that just this idea of grace and authenticity is a lot of the point of this movie. It's authenticity to be who we are and then grace to accept [00:43:00] who other people are as well. Because if we want to be ourselves and we want to be accepted, we need to accept other people.
And I think I saw the most recent guardians movie, just, I think it was. Not last night the night before and it was like I think a theme of that one felt to me This feels similar is like sometimes you have to love people For who they are not who you want them to be or love life or love reality for what it is not what you want it to be or what you think it should be and so just this idea of accepting people and things the way they are.
And that, I think that serenity prayer idea too of help me know the difference. Help me know when I need to be brave and I need to be in someone's face and I need to be like, whoa, this is bad. We need to fix it. And then also to know when I need to step back. And have a more peaceful accepting energy of that.
I think that's just I think these kids, they did a great job being trapped in a library together with what they had, honestly, [00:44:00] it could have ended in a fistfight, but it instead ended in group therapy. So I also think how different it could have been had it been played out today and everyone just sat on their phone the whole day and nobody bridged any gaps.
So nobody reached out across the table and it would have just played out a lot differently had it been shot now. That's a whole other topic, isn't it, though? Oh my gosh, yes. We need faces. Faces are helpful. Faces and not screens. Put the phones down, guys. Yes. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Awesome. Oh, also my last note was dance equals life.
Because there was like, the dancing was just... Everyone needs a dance break. seemed to really, everyone just shook it off. And I was like, the one that made me laugh was when the three guys were doing that marching together thing. And I was like, That took practice, boys. I was like, you didn't just get up there and do that.
It was so funny. I'm just imagining them rehearsing before they got up on that little banister thing. It was so funny. [00:45:00] Yeah, everyone needs a dance break for sure. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. thIs was such a fun conversation. I super appreciate you joining me today and talking about this really classic weird movie.
And I probably would have never seen it had I was fun. Ask to watch it. So I'm very thankful for that. There we go. Yes. Awesome. Cool. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining me, guys. I hope that you enjoyed today's episode and that maybe you were encouraged and reminded to have a little more empathy for, um, maybe some teenagers in your life and or maybe just a little bit of grace for yourself when you were a teenager.
I also hope that you... Learned a little bit and thought a new thought. I hope that you[00:46:00]
help. Maybe our conversation about being brave enough to be yourself and grace for other people to be themselves. Just a good reminder for us all to. Do the best we can, but know that others are doing the best they can with what they have as well. And just to have grace and empathy and kindness. So I hope this was a reminder to be kind, and I hope that you all have a great week.
Until next time.
